CEO BLOG

The Journey from Fantasy Land to Reality

Ruby Kolesky, CEO @ Joyous

December 7, 2023

 

Disclaimer: I'm a first time Co-CEO of an enterprise saas company, willing to be vulnerable. I'm also a mother of two young children. This blog is an expression of my personal views and learnings. If it's helpful great. If not, no offence taken.

The integrity stair-step.

My personal goal this year was to level up my integrity. I’ve come to learn that my brain is programmable. There are things about it that are great. If I isolate them I can double down and expand on those things. Like adding a new feature to a product. There are also things about it that are not so great. I think of them as thinking errors - like bugs in code.

Coming from a background as a software engineer I love that analogy. Because if you can identify and replicate a bug then it’s quite likely that you can write some code to fix it. I’ve been doing it for years now. One of my best bug fixes ever was to stop over-thinking. The more bugs I've fixed the more capacity I've had to add features.

I buy into the notion that our personalities and our intellect are not fixed. I’m captivated by the idea that I can continuously refine and improve how I think. So, I invest effort into improving the interior of my mind. This has not only benefited me but everyone around me.

As a CEO I recognise that I have an even greater responsibility to keep doing work on myself. Why? Because a good version of me can support and catapult the people I work with, and the organisation I work for. A bad version can create discord and chaos.

Who you are is defined by how you show up in the shadows. It's easy to appear awesome on forums like LinkedIn, where you can curate your content. It's easy to appear awesome on a public forum like a conference panel. Or a company wide talk. Or a TV show. Events where you've had a lot of time to prepare and the conditions are ideal.

But who you really are is defined by how you show up in the shadows. When there isn’t an audience. When there’s nobody to impress. Particularly when things get really hard.

In these moments, you need to decide who you're going to show up as. Are you going to show up with integrity, be reactive, or shy away from the difficult thing that’s sitting in front of you?

The meaning of integrity to me.

According to the dictionary integrity means a few things:

  • It is the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles.
  • The state of being whole and undivided.
  • Internal consistency or lack of corruption and data. I think of it as internal mental or integrity checking.

In 2022 I felt like things were happening to me. My reactions were coming from a place of either fear or personal desire. This was letting down my integrity. Towards the end of the year I was in a pretty bad place.

I could see things playing out in a suboptimal way. I wasn’t showing up as the best version of myself. To be fair I was really tired. We all were. I knew heading into 2023 that if I continued on that path it wouldn’t be good for me or the great people around me.

Deep down I realised it was self-doubt that was preventing me from stepping up my integrity.

So, the first thing I did in 2023 was lean into a situation that wasn’t going well. I got honest with myself about the role that I was playing. And I thought long and hard about how I could show up differently.

You see, supporting people you agree with is easy. Supporting people you agree with and also get along with is even easier. The real challenge with integrity is supporting people even if you don't agree with them or get along. Because that's when your own fears and desires start to interfere.

So a first step towards my goal was simple:

  1. It doesn't matter who you are or what you think. I have to have your back.
  2. I will voice the things that you need to hear. In a way that is easy to hear but doesn't shy away from the reality.
  3. I will raise you up by being supportive and constructive. I will offer context and advice without being prescriptive.

Sound simple? Don't underestimate how prevalent avoidance is. Even at the most senior levels. Even in large organisations. It doesn't matter who you are - avoiding things is just easier.

Taking it a step at a time.

The first time I did this in a really deliberate way I got a positive reaction. All the conditions were present. I didn't agree, I didn't feel at that moment we got along. But still I followed the three simple steps above. The very next day I got unsolicited positive feedback. So, I kept doing it.

Not only did it help other people, but it also helped me. I became more efficient. Both mentally and emotionally. The change must’ve been pretty evident. A few months into the practice, one of my Co-CEOs took me out for lunch. He voiced how impressed and curious he was about the shift. That was great validation, so I doubled down.

I began to trust myself more, and other people started trusting me more. After about six months my mental feature enhancement stabilised. Enough that it became a default setting, without much pre-processing required.

This freed up more capacity in my brain to focus on improving other areas.

Enter Fantasy Land.

In the meantime 2023 unfolded as yet another challenging year to run a business. Not just for us at Joyous but for most everybody. The macro economic environment has been nothing short of a horror show. The capital markets turned to shit. Inflation - a shocker. Most other tech shops around us did layoffs during covid, some more than once.

For a bit more context, Joyous is an enterprise saas company. This year our enterprise prospects got a lot more conservative with spending. Most of them have also done layoffs.

But we remained optimistic.

As the year progressed we were not meeting the growth targets we'd set during the previous year's booming market. So, we did a tonne of work on go-to-market strategies and experiments. We believed it was enough to shift things in the right direction.

There's that optimism again.

But it wasn't enough to counter the slow down in sales cycles.

We also raised capital right before the recession late in 2021. And we have always been conservative with spending and employee growth. This gave us the luxury of a long runway, one that few others had. It felt like we had all the time in the world to turn it around or wait it out.

This combined with our optimism created the foundation for Fantasy Land.

By Q3, I could no longer ignore that things were not shifting as quickly as we needed them to. But, we still had plenty of runway. So, it felt counter intuitive to react. I was still living my best life in Fantasy Land.

And then came a few more signs. An offhand comment from a board member. A graph on revenue that shook me. Something shifted inside me.

I can remember sitting in my bedroom one Friday night in September thinking: Shit. We are gonna have to do some hard things. And I'll need to lead the way.

It's not that I was feeling desperate, it was that I felt compelled to do the right thing.

And so started my journey from Fantasy Land to Reality.

Grounding in reality.

I leaned on my integrity. I decided to navigate this really hard, really difficult thing with confidence. I knew what we needed to do. Like most companies had in the previous 18 months, we needed to restructure. I communicated it with care, transparency and held space for everyone around me.

Until then I have never been part of a restructure, let alone lead one. So, this was new ground for me. Actually, a lot of what I do is new ground for me. But still I leaned in. I worked with the team around me to figure out the path forward. I was inclusive, generous, and kind. We did the hard thing, had to say goodbye to some incredible humans, and now here we are. The remaining team.

Walking amongst the ever growing tech population well and truly grounded in reality.

I have taken away a few key learnings that will help us stay permanently grounded in reality. Maybe they'll help you too.

  1. Monitor for the things that are not working and own up to it. Maybe you’ve convinced yourself that you have PMF when you don’t. Maybe you’ve convinced yourself that your sales motion is just about to take off like a rocket ship when it’s not. Maybe you’ve got people individually chasing great ideas but executing them at the wrong time and without support when they should stop. Maybe you have more people on the team than you can justify. Maybe you have all these things going on at once. The best way to stay out of Fantasy Land is to keep owning up to the things that are not working and lean in.
  2. Take a shared approach to systematically addressing the things that are not working. Bring everybody together and unite them. If you or anyone on your team think they are going to be the hero that will save the day - they almost certainly will not be. This has to be a constant encouragement, as people tend to divide over time.
  3. Ensure that there is absolute clarity on what the focus needs to be. This needs to be determined by the group, even if initially driven by the leadership team. This needs to consistently communicated, monitored, reinforced and further refined. Each individual needs to understand their part in achieving the outcome.
  4. Beware the rabbit holes. Even more importantly, each individual needs to avoid going down a rabbit hole. For companies like ours, there are endless good ideas. But if they don't align to the focus, or if they won't make an impact in the next 6-12 months, then they are dangerous. Individuals should rely on the group to help them avoid rabbit holes. Right now Joyous is more focused than we have ever been.
  5. Transparency and communication is key. We have radically increased our transparency. We are sharing more information than ever before. We have always been open by nature, but we've taken it to another level. Context is king. We share far more as leaders and we share early. And we encourage our teams to share more as well.
  6. Increasing accountability. In the past, possibly as a side effect of living in Fantasy land, we were not great at holding each other accountable. Without accountability to ourselves and to each other we are unlikely to succeed. We all know what we need to do. This needs to be measurable and we need to report on it. The challenge for 2024 will be to follow through, remain focused and collectively achieve our goals.
  7. Empower individuals. Context, transparency and accountability make it possible to empower individuals. As long as they have enough information, most people will make the right decisions. I have never seen this be more true than I am seeing right now.

I am confident that if we can keep practising these learnings we will succeed. We will also be able to resist the urge to return to Fantasy Land, and remain grounded in Reality. We are a small group of thoughtful people who I wholeheartedly believe can and will change the world.

Footnote.

As my Co-CEO Mike Carden points out, alongside our challenges we’ve also had many great successes in 2023. So, in recognition of those:

  • The team we've built is world class and second to none.
  • The innovation we've added to our product, particularly leveraging AI has been phenomenal.
  • We've made incredible progress on our GTM strategy and positioning.

No company is without its challenges, but few companies are vulnerable enough to admit it.

So...what's my challenge for 2025? Finding peace.

3. Prioritize Clarity and Psychological Safety

Good design = more accurate and useful responses. Every question:

  • Avoids jargon and reads at a Grade 5 reading level. Increases the chances that people will correctly understand the question. Also improves the quality of automatic translation (for multi language organizations).
  • When possible and appropriate refers to “the thing”, not “the person” (e.g. “The training is effective” instead of “I understand the training”). Increasing the chances that a person will feel more comfortable answering honestly without it reflecting negatively on themselves.
  • Ask about just one thing at a time (no “and/or” confusion). Reduces the lack of certainty about what the person's score for a rated statement is referring to.
  • Flows logically from previous questions. Helps the person comfortably move through questions in the order a real person would naturally talk about it.

And yes, skipping a question is always an option. This keeps participants in control and increases survey completion rates.

6. The Joyous HR Engagement Model

The Joyous HR Engagement model is based upon an Open Source project that was released by Joyous in 2019, namely the EX Genome Project. This engagement model has continuously evolved and been regularly updated and revised since.

In 2025, the Joyous HR Engagement Model consists of a library of assets, including survey and campaign templates, all of which are available directly from the tool in the People & Culture category of the Campaign Templates Gallery.

These templates are highly customisable and configurable:

  • The Long Culture Survey (10m). A 10 minute assessment (29 questions) of work experience, suitable for annual measurement across engagement, well-being, culture & environment and fairness & inclusion.
  • The Medium Culture Survey (5m). A medium length (13 questions) assessment of work experience, suitable for six monthly or annual measurement across engagement, well-being, culture & environment and fairness & inclusion.
  • The Short Culture Survey (2m). A short assessment (6 questions) of work experience, suitable for quarterly measurement.
  • Action focused campaigns. Targeted conversational campaigns focused on specific improvements on topics such as: Environment, Growth, Role Support & Strategy.

7. A Brief History of the EX Genome Project

The Employee Experience Genome Project V1.0 was first released in 2019 after 18 months of research. Since then Joyous has incorporated the feedback and analysis of millions of responses in Joyous.

The purpose of the Employee Experience Genome project is to demystify the science of measuring employee experience and engagement - enabling a more transparent, productive workplace. And importantly: to make that science easy to understand and accessible for all.

The premise of the model is that Employee Experience is everything people encounter, observe or feel at work. Employee Engagement is the emotional commitment people have to their workplace.

The model breaks Employee Experience into three core categories that have the greatest impact on engagement: Culture & Environment, Fairness & Inclusion, and Wellbeing. These are complimented by a fourth category: Engagement.

Each category includes three topics. The first release included 25 question pairs offering two rated statements per topic, each with a related open-text question, often referred to as a conversation starter.


Figure 1 - The EX Genome Categories & Topics

A few early adopters in the first two years saw great success with the conversational approach. The biggest success was a shift in the perception that 'nobody is listening' and 'nothing ever changes' as a result of feedback. For many, changes were personal, and therefore highly visible.

Leaders were responding directly to employee feedback. Ensuring a positive employee experience was no longer perceived as the sole responsibility of the HR team. Instead it became a shared responsibility across HR, leaders and the individual employee.

At the same time other adopters faced challenges. Not all teams or industries were ready for open dialogue between managers and employees. Our research discovered a strong correlation in drop off rates to manager engagement.

In all cases, repeated exposure to the same questions led to fatigue - similar to what occurs with traditional surveys - and participation gradually dropped off over time.

Participation rates dropped by 15% to 35% over a six to 12 month period until hitting a plateau.

Another challenge faced was skepticism from senior leaders that the scoring was accurate, due to the open nature of the feedback. Joyous later conducted an experiment which disproved this, however this skepticism remained.

In parallel, many customers started using Joyous for operational feedback. Their goal was to make people's jobs easier by reducing friction in their daily tasks. This not only improves employee experience but also has a positive impact on cost efficiency and productivity. In contrast to the employee experience use case, the operational use case found open and conversational feedback to be effective and universally positive.

Instead of conversations with managers, employees were engaging directly with Subject Matter Experts or Project Leaders right before or after they implemented significant changes in products, services, tools, processes or organisational structure.

Several customers correlated an increase in their employee engagement scores with the shift to using Joyous for operational feedback.

In 2021, Joyous released Employee Experience Genome Project V2.0.

The original question set was revised based on feedback from early adopters, employee comments and exhaustive analysis on the performance of individual questions. The model also expanded to 50 question pairs, enabling two sets to be rotated every six months. The adoption of the revised model saw an initial uplift in adoption and a slower drop off rate for new adopters over time.

In 2022, Joyous released a third version as the Te Reo Māori Employee Experience Genome Project V1.0. As a proudly New Zealand organization Joyous worked with our valued partner, Maurea Consulting, to adapt both the model and the Joyous product to support delivering the model in dual language side-by-side. This was the same 50 question pairs as version 2.0, with some further improvements to the english questions based on feedback and in-line Te Reo Māori versions to support our Kiwi customers in helping to uplift Māori cultural competency.

Over the course of 2022 to 2025, most Joyous customers shifted away from weekly conversations between managers and employees. Today, nearly all Joyous HR customers use a combination of quarterly surveys and action focused campaigns - following the current Joyous HR Engagement Model, outlined in this article.  

The EX Genome model has been adapted and refined over the last three years to suit this approach and been renamed to the Joyous HR Engagement Model and action-focused campaign templates targeting specific topics were added to compliment the surveys. This version is not Open Source.

8. Types of Questions

Joyous supports a variety of question types and features to suit different goals — from measuring engagement to collecting targeted, actionable feedback. Three core question types are used in the Joyous HR Engagement Surveys and Campaigns.

Core Question Types:

  • eNPS (Employee Net Promoter Score):
    Measures overall employee loyalty by asking:
    “How likely are you to recommend [ACME] as a place to work?”
    Employees answer on an 11-point Likert scale from 0 to 10.
    • Scores of 9–10 = Promoters
    • Scores of 7–8 = Passives
    • Scores of 0–6 = Detractors.
    • The eNPS score is calculated as:
      % Promoters – % Detractors (Range: -100 to +100)
      This is displayed as a whole number in the dashboard.
  • Rated Statement:
    A rated statement which employees answer on an 11-point Likert scale using the same format as eNPS for consistency. The average score is calculated across all responses and rounded to one decimal place (Range 0-10). This enables benchmarking and heatmap comparisons across individuals, teams, or categories over time.
  • Open Text Question:
    Allows employees to provide feedback in their own words. Typically used once per topic to collect specific, actionable insights without overwhelming participants, and used to identify actionable insights.

Additional Question Types and Features:

  • Multiple Choice (Select One or Many):
    Offers a predefined set of options. Can be configured to allow a single response or multiple selections.
  • Demographic Data Collection:
    Gathers contextual data by allowing employees to self-identify based on existing attributes (e.g. business unit, region, gender) or a predefined list.
  • Conditional Visibility:
    Questions are only shown when relevant, based on previous answers.

9. Survey and Campaign Templates

Long Culture Survey Template (10m)

A 10 minute assessment (29 questions) of work experience, suitable for annual measurement across engagement, well-being, culture & environment and fairness & inclusion.

Download the template in an excel workbook here.


Figure 2 - Long Culture Survey
Category / Topic
Type
Conversation Design
SMS / Chat App copy
From: [ACME] via Joyous

Hi , help us make life better for people at [ACME]. Use this unique link to answer a 10 minute survey -
Email subject
Help us make life better for people at [ACME]
Messages
Please help us make life better for people at [ACME] by completing this 10 minute survey.

Your response will be treated confidentially, and will only be seen our HR team.
eNPS
Q1: How likely are you to recommend [ACME] as a place to work?
Category:
Engagement
Messages
Thanks for scoring.

Next, let's reflect on how engaged you are feeling at the moment.

How strongly do you agree or disagree with the following statements?
Topics:
Energy
Immersion
Dedication
Rated statements
Q2: Most days I feel good about my role.

Q3: I'm motivated at work even when things are challenging.

Q4: I find it easy to concentrate on my work.

Q5: My role makes good use of my skills, knowledge and experience.

Q6: My role challenges me in a way that leads to personal growth.

Q7: My role provides me with a sense of fulfilment.
Open text question
Q8: What would help improve your work experience at [ACME]?
Category:
Well-being
Messages
Next up, we'd like to understand more about your well-being.

How strongly do you agree or disagree with the following statements?
Topics:
Support
Security
Workload
Rated statements
Q9: I receive regular feedback [from my peers and leaders] that helps me understand how I can improve.

Q10: Leaders at [ACME] create a supportive working environment for me.

Q11: I feel comfortable voicing any concerns I may have.

Q12: I believe people at [ACME] care about the safety of our people.

Q13: My workload is manageable.

Q14: I have the flexibility I need to balance both work and home.
Open text question
Q15: What could [ACME] consider changing to improve your well-being at work?
Category:
Culture & Environment
Messages
Next, we'd like you to consider the culture and environment at [ACME].

How strongly do you agree or disagree with the following statements?
Topics:
Clarity
Responsibility
Physical Environment
Rated statements
Q16: It is clear what is expected of me in my role.

Q17: Business goals and strategies are clearly communicated.

Q18: I feel trusted to do a good job.

Q19: I seek the help and resources I need to perform my role well.

Q20: The tools, technology and processes at [ACME] allow me to perform my role well.

Q21: My physical workspace allows me to work comfortably and productively.
Open text question
Q22: What is one thing we could do to improve the culture and environment at [ACME]?
Category:
Fairness & Inclusion
Messages
Finally, let's reflect on fairness and inclusion at [ACME].

How strongly do you agree or disagree with the following statements?
Topics:
Belonging
Fairness
Opportunity
Rated statements
Q23: I feel connected to the wider [ACME] team.

Q24: I feel appreciated for the work that I do.

Q25: I feel comfortable sharing my ideas.

Q26: I'm treated with respect at [ACME].

Q27: My role provides me with opportunities to learn.

Q28: I have opportunities to discuss my progress and development.
Open text question
Q29: What ideas do you have to improve fairness and inclusion at [ACME]?
Messages
Thank you for completing the survey. We appreciate your feedback.

The Medium Culture Survey (5m)

A medium length (13 questions) assessment of work experience, suitable for six monthly or annual measurement across engagement, well-being, culture & environment and fairness & inclusion.

Download the template in an excel workbook here.

Category / Topic
Type
Conversation Design
SMS / Chat App copy
From: [ACME] via Joyous

Hi , help us make life better for people at [ACME]. Use this unique link to answer a 5 minute survey -
Email subject
Help us make life better for people at [ACME]
Messages
Please help us make life better for people at [ACME] by completing this 5 minute survey.

Your response will be treated confidentially, and will only be seen our HR team.
eNPS
Q1: How likely are you to recommend [ACME] as a place to work?
Category:
Engagement
Messages
Thanks for scoring.

Next, let's reflect on how engaged you are feeling at the moment.

How strongly do you agree or disagree with the following statements?
Topics:
Energy
Immersion
Rated statements
Q2: Most days I feel good about my role.

Q3: My role makes good use of my skills, knowledge and experience.
Open text question
Q4: What would help improve your work experience at [ACME]?
Category:
Well-being
Messages
Next up, we'd like to understand more about your well-being.

How strongly do you agree or disagree with the following statements?
Topics:
Support
Workload
Rated statements
Q5: Leaders at [ACME] create a supportive working environment for me.

Q6: I have the flexibility I need to balance both work and home.
Open text question
Q7: What could [ACME] consider changing to improve your well-being at work?
Category:
Culture & Environment
Messages
Next, we'd like you to consider the culture and environment at [ACME].

How strongly do you agree or disagree with the following statements?
Topics:
Clarity
Physical Environment
Rated statements
Q8: It is clear what is expected of me in my role.

Q9: The tools, technology and processes at [ACME] allow me to perform my role well.
Open text question
Q22: What is one thing we could do to improve the culture and environment at [ACME]?
Category:
Fairness & Inclusion
Messages
Finally, let's reflect on fairness and inclusion at [ACME].

How strongly do you agree or disagree with the following statements?
Topics:
Fairness
Opportunity
Rated statements
Q26: I'm treated with respect at [ACME].

Q27: My role provides me with opportunities to learn.
Open text question
Q29: What ideas do you have to improve fairness and inclusion at [ACME]?
Messages
Thank you for completing the survey. We appreciate your feedback.

The Short Culture Survey (2m)

A short assessment (6 questions) of work experience, suitable for quarterly measurement.

Download the template in an excel workbook here.

Category / Topic
Type
Conversation Design
SMS / Chat App copy
From: [ACME] via Joyous

Hi , help us make life better for people at [ACME]. Use this unique link to answer a 2 minute survey -
Email subject
Help us make life better for people at [ACME]
Messages
Please help us make life better for people at [ACME] by completing this 2 minute survey.

Your response will be treated confidentially, and will only be seen our HR team.
eNPS
Q1: How likely are you to recommend [ACME] as a place to work?
Category:
Engagement
Well-being
Culture & Environment
Fairness & Inclusion
Messages
Thanks for scoring.

Next, please answer a few quick questions about your experience at work.

How strongly do you agree or disagree with the following statements?
Topics:
Energy
Support
Physical Environment
Opportunity
Rated statements
Q2: Most days I feel good about my role.

Q3: Leaders at [ACME] create a supportive working environment for me.

Q4: The tools, technology and processes at [ACME] allow me to perform my role well.

Q5: My role provides me with opportunities to learn.
Open text question
Q6: What would help improve your work experience at [ACME]?

Action focused campaigns

Targeted conversational campaigns focused on specific improvements on topics such as: Environment, Growth, Role Support & Strategy.

Approach:

  • One focus only: e.g Role Support.
  • Two topics covered over two weeks. For example: Week 1 - Support, Week 2 - Training & Information.
  • Two questions per week only. One rated statement followed by one open text question.
  • Open. Most often action focused campaigns are open, and people's names will go with their feedback.
  • Conversational. By default an AI agent is used to draft one concise follow up message to each open text question response with the system poses instantly after a response is received.
    This follow up will thank a person for their detailed feedback, or ask a tailored clarifying question in the event a response was too vague.
    A real person can also jump in, which is helpful when facilitators want to understand more or provide relevant information to the respondent.
  • Flexible. Just like surveys this approach is flexible - including the structure, visibility and conversational approach. This best practice has been tried and tested over millions of conversations and is highly recommended to ensure the highest level of actionable engagement with the minimum time disruption to people.

Action focused campaigns should only be run one to three months before the organization intends to take action on a focused topic. They are a fast and meaningful way to gather specific actionable ideas from people. This greatly helps improve the quality, awareness and adoption of the prioritised actions.

Download the template in an excel workbook here.


Figure 3 - Action focused campaign structure

Example: Role Support

Week 1

Category / Topic
Type
Conversation Design
SMS / Chat App copy
From: [ACME] via Joyous

Hi , help us increase support for your role at [ACME]. Use this unique link to answer two quick questions -
Email subject
Help us increase support for your role
Messages
For the next two weeks, we're asking for your input to help increase support for your role at [ACME].

Your ideas will influence the changes we make.

How strongly do you agree or disagree with this statement?
Category:
Role Support
Rated statement
Q1: The support available for employees in my role is sufficient.
Topic:
Support
Open text question
Q2: What additional support should we consider for people in your role?

Week 2

Category / Topic
Type
Conversation Design
SMS / Chat App copy
From: [ACME] via Joyous

Hi, here's your next question about increasing support for your role at [ACME]. Use this unique link to answer two quick questions -
Email subject
Here's your next question about increasing support for your role
Messages
This week, tell us what additional training and information would enable people in your role to be more effective.

How strongly do you agree or disagree with this statement?
Category:
Role Support
Rated statement
Q3: The training and information available for people in my role is effective.
Topic:
Training & Information
Open text question
Q4: What additional training and information would enable people in your role to be more effective?

Conclusion

And there you have it! If you made it this far, well done! You now have a comprehensive understanding of how Joyous recommends approaching HR and Engagement with our Employee Experience (EX) product.

Rest assured, your account manager will partner with you on your journey and you will be supported at every step. We are here to work alongside you and will tailor our approach to suit your unique requirements and culture.

If you have any feedback or questions don't hesitate to reach out to your account manager directly.

Ruby Kolesky
CEO @ Joyous
 

Ruby is a comedian-turned engineer, previously leading product at two global tech companies, she has been CEO at Joyous for 4 years. Her passion for making a positive impact on people’s lives is perfectly matched with the mission of Joyous to make life better for people at work.

She enjoys working across all parts of the organization and is passionate about product direction and data science.

She is the co-author of Joyfully, a book about shared leadership, modern organizational structures, and a new way of working. Her second book Pathways, is a guide to help woman and other under-represented people get a job in technology in six months or less.

She was the Winner of the Product Category for Women Leading Tech Australia 2022 and a finalist in the Inspiring Individual Category of the HiTech awards in 2023.

Reflections of a learning CEO

Recent posts

View all CEO Blog posts